lydy: (me by ddb)
[personal profile] lydy
When you ask someone to not do something, you are not required to explain why. If you ask someone not to hug you, you do not then have to justify this request by explaining that you have a chronic pain condition where pressure is painful. If you ask someone not to tell you dead baby jokes, you do not then have to reinforce that request by explaining that you had a miscarriage a year ago, and the topic is still a sensitive one. Nor do you have to explain that you just really don't like to be touched, or that dead baby jokes gross you out. You are entitled to set reasonable boundaries in your social interactions, and it is the violation of those boundaries, not the setting of them, that is rude.

There are limits, of course. You cannot reasonably ask that a mandatory interaction be stopped because it discomfits you. Your boss is allowed to remind you to finish filing your paperwork, for instance. Nor am I talking about close friends and intimate partners, where it is far more reasonable for them to need explanations of what's going on with you. One hopes that their motivation is to know you better and to map your needs more accurately so that they can avoid not merely the problematic behavior, but other associated behaviors.

When people demand that you justify these requests, they tend to be trying to turn the tables. To turn you into the rude one, the one with the problem. Sometimes, they just feel like you called them a bad person, and are trying to defend themselves from the charge of being a bad person. But far, far too often, predators will demand explanations because that way they can make the whole interaction your problem, and put the burden of their bad behavior on you. Frequently, the explanation ends up minimizing the problem, and allowing the person upsetting you to continue to do so. The worst case is that explaining why the behavior is a problem for you can open up new vistas of vulnerability, which some people will then exploit. The demand for explanation is often in tandem with accusations of you being too sensitive, or having no sense of humor, nor not understanding what they really meant, or trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Sometimes, they will insist that you have taken what they said out of context, and suddenly, there you are, and the conversation is entirely about them, and your feelings and discomfort are completely unimportant. Which is the point. These are not arguments that you can win, and are designed to be completely unwinnable. They are like nuclear war, the only winning strategy is not to play.

There are people in the world, and I know some of them, to whom just about nothing is funny, who are easily upset or offended. I'm not suggesting that you become one of those people. I am suggesting that you have the right to a work and social environment that doesn't constantly nick you on your sore spots, and that too many people let your fear of being "that person" prevent them from stating and enforcing perfectly reasonable boundaries.

Date: 2015-02-07 05:16 pm (UTC)

Date: 2015-02-07 10:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] skylarker.livejournal.com
Thanks for the affirmation. I very often don't have an explanation for why something bothers me. At least not right off the bat, I have to mull matters over and figure things out and it's hard to do that in the context of ordinary conversation.

Date: 2015-02-08 05:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] faunhaert.livejournal.com
even family should not dig in to your private places.
my mother digs like that
she seems to make everything is about her,
she makes it out like if i don't tell i'm being horrible,
she says" how can i fix it if i don't know what wrong"
she can't fix it never could and she'd use it against me.
but unless you want them to know
its a no. some things are private.

people who do that at work
are indeed pushing boundaries
the jokes are gross. they are grade school jokes.
if you want to deflct it away from you
say
your clients should not be subjected to that either.
my first line of defense is
you are making the environment bad for the client.

but they laughed they say
its a nervous laugh people do that when they are uncomfortable.

no one should push people's personal space especially at work
"don't touch me' is a reasonable request.
you don't need pain to reinforce that

unwanted touch falls into the sexual harassment catagory.
go ahead and back up-
say no and if they won't stop- do tell the boss.

if i was your boss I would want to nip that in the bud.
it would be grounds to eliminate a trainee-
I'd worry if he would do it to the clients
if he did it to staff who are not compromised,
your clients are vulnerable to that.

you are the provider of a secure service
for people in a vulnerable position
you have every right to be secure too.

Date: 2015-02-08 01:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mplsfish.livejournal.com
All of what you said is why I got divorced. It was remarkably difficult to define my discomfort even years later.
I'm sorry you have to work with such a person. I hope your ability to define the problem gives you what you need to deal effectively.

Date: 2015-02-08 11:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lydy.livejournal.com
Actually, neither of the examples was from work. I detest dead baby jokes, but fortunately it's been a while since they were a thing. And I actually like being hugged, but a number of my friends do not. Learning to ask first was, um, not exactly difficult, but I got it wrong a lot at the beginning. There was definitely a learning curve for me.

The thing that did happen at work which triggered this was that Friday night Todd (who is always the instigator) started in with one of the "not a racist joke because it's about white people" things. Without considering whether or not this was a fight I wanted to have, I said, "Oh, god, can we not do this again tonight?" Todd responded, "What do you mean?" And I ignored him, because it wasn't a discussion I wanted to have. The interesting thing is that there were no more inappropriate jokes that night. And I had an epiphany. Which led to this post.

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