BtVS: Why I hate Angel
Oct. 10th, 2005 11:10 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lydyThis is a rant I've been meaning to have for a while. I'm obsessed with Buffy the Vampire Slayer
and somewhat less so with Angel. (All my friends may now laugh themselves sick. I've spent years of their lives explaining how I didn't need to see Buffy to know it was an intolerable piece of trash. Ok, friends. You've had your laugh. Now shut up.)
I would like to say that I really, truly hate Angel. Always and forever Angel. I can forgive him for Angelus. Indeed, I found Boreanaz rather better looking and more interesting when he played Angelus. But Angel? My good lords! He abandons the woman who he believes is his true love, not once, but twice. The first time, he tells her it is "for her own good", which translates as "all your fault." Buffy's too young to understand that he's lying, too young to understand that he's running away, not being noble. What he does at the end of Season Three is a travesty. Gods save me forever from people doing things "for my own good." He refuses to allow her to have any part in the decision, and then blames it on her! And as I said, she's too young to catch at him it. Even on the most basic level, he thinks that she's old enough to sleep with, but not old enough to deal with the consequences of that action. That is unacceptable. We call it statutory rape in the law. While I'm not a fan of the stat rape laws, it is precisely that sort of situation that the laws are supposed to address. I think that Buffy was old enough to make the decision, and old enough to deal with the consequences.
He abandoned her a second time when he asked TPTB to turn him back into a vampire. Again, I think it was because he was afraid. I think he was especially afraid of being involved with a girl who could kick his ass. His argument to the effect that it would improve her life expectancy sounded false to me. Once again, he didn't involve her in the decision, which is flatly wrong, surely. He says he loves her, but insists on making all the decisions? How on earth does anyone, even a vampire, shelter the Chosen One? So, he wins on stupid, as well. There is also this: he remembers having had one perfect day. As painful as such a memory can be, it is still a priceless one, and he stole it from her. He can remember, but she cannot. Remember why she showed up in the first place? To yell at him for precisely that behavior, to tell him how much it hurt for him to be able to see her, but for her to not be able to see him, for him to have the right to make those decisions without including her. His choice to turn back time is like that, cubed.
Season Five of Angel, he's working in a company with the most comprehensive library of spells and curses. Does he bother to turn one lone researcher loose on the question of whether or not it would be possible to remove his curse? He does not. He is on tolerably good terms with Willow, one of the most powerful witches in the Western Hemisphere. Does he ever, once, ask Willow if she would try reverse-engineering his curse to see what could possibly be done so that he and Buffy really could have a future together? He does not. He makes absolutely no effort whatsoever to find a way to be with Buffy, no effort to create a world in which they can love. If this is true love, give me casual friendship.
Here's the thing. One of Joss's constant themes is that redemption is always possible. Always. Even Spike. Even Andrew. Angel is offered, over and over again, not merely redemption, but happiness, and he turns it down every time. He looks for the most difficult, the most painful way to proceed. This is artificial angst, this is false pride, it is fake martyrdom, and while he's welcome to every bit as much of it as he can swallow, he never seems to care how much it hurts other people, especially not how much he hurts Buffy. He acts as if Buffy's pains belong to him, so if he can manage to grieve both of them, he gets double points on the pain-o-meter. However, redemption isn't bought by pain. It's a free gift. It's the result of repentence, and pain is often a consequence, but it is not the cost.
Love hurts, and gods know you always hurt the one you love, but it's not a goal, dammit. Love will take care of that all by itself, it doesn't need your help.
and somewhat less so with Angel. (All my friends may now laugh themselves sick. I've spent years of their lives explaining how I didn't need to see Buffy to know it was an intolerable piece of trash. Ok, friends. You've had your laugh. Now shut up.)
I would like to say that I really, truly hate Angel. Always and forever Angel. I can forgive him for Angelus. Indeed, I found Boreanaz rather better looking and more interesting when he played Angelus. But Angel? My good lords! He abandons the woman who he believes is his true love, not once, but twice. The first time, he tells her it is "for her own good", which translates as "all your fault." Buffy's too young to understand that he's lying, too young to understand that he's running away, not being noble. What he does at the end of Season Three is a travesty. Gods save me forever from people doing things "for my own good." He refuses to allow her to have any part in the decision, and then blames it on her! And as I said, she's too young to catch at him it. Even on the most basic level, he thinks that she's old enough to sleep with, but not old enough to deal with the consequences of that action. That is unacceptable. We call it statutory rape in the law. While I'm not a fan of the stat rape laws, it is precisely that sort of situation that the laws are supposed to address. I think that Buffy was old enough to make the decision, and old enough to deal with the consequences.
He abandoned her a second time when he asked TPTB to turn him back into a vampire. Again, I think it was because he was afraid. I think he was especially afraid of being involved with a girl who could kick his ass. His argument to the effect that it would improve her life expectancy sounded false to me. Once again, he didn't involve her in the decision, which is flatly wrong, surely. He says he loves her, but insists on making all the decisions? How on earth does anyone, even a vampire, shelter the Chosen One? So, he wins on stupid, as well. There is also this: he remembers having had one perfect day. As painful as such a memory can be, it is still a priceless one, and he stole it from her. He can remember, but she cannot. Remember why she showed up in the first place? To yell at him for precisely that behavior, to tell him how much it hurt for him to be able to see her, but for her to not be able to see him, for him to have the right to make those decisions without including her. His choice to turn back time is like that, cubed.
Season Five of Angel, he's working in a company with the most comprehensive library of spells and curses. Does he bother to turn one lone researcher loose on the question of whether or not it would be possible to remove his curse? He does not. He is on tolerably good terms with Willow, one of the most powerful witches in the Western Hemisphere. Does he ever, once, ask Willow if she would try reverse-engineering his curse to see what could possibly be done so that he and Buffy really could have a future together? He does not. He makes absolutely no effort whatsoever to find a way to be with Buffy, no effort to create a world in which they can love. If this is true love, give me casual friendship.
Here's the thing. One of Joss's constant themes is that redemption is always possible. Always. Even Spike. Even Andrew. Angel is offered, over and over again, not merely redemption, but happiness, and he turns it down every time. He looks for the most difficult, the most painful way to proceed. This is artificial angst, this is false pride, it is fake martyrdom, and while he's welcome to every bit as much of it as he can swallow, he never seems to care how much it hurts other people, especially not how much he hurts Buffy. He acts as if Buffy's pains belong to him, so if he can manage to grieve both of them, he gets double points on the pain-o-meter. However, redemption isn't bought by pain. It's a free gift. It's the result of repentence, and pain is often a consequence, but it is not the cost.
Love hurts, and gods know you always hurt the one you love, but it's not a goal, dammit. Love will take care of that all by itself, it doesn't need your help.
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Date: 2005-10-11 10:25 am (UTC)Becky
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Date: 2005-10-11 11:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-10-11 01:12 pm (UTC)The central metaphor is that all teenagers are special, but have a hard time articulating this to their parents and to adults, who do not perceive their abilities or worth.
Ah, Philosophy
Date: 2005-10-11 01:14 pm (UTC)As for your change of heart: snicker, snicker, snicker. When Star Wars first hit the movie theatres, I too knew that it couldn't possibly be any good because it was so popular...
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Date: 2005-10-11 01:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-10-11 01:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-10-11 03:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-10-11 07:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-10-12 04:43 am (UTC)Each season is a story arc. One of Buffy's strong points is the story arc which gives the writers enough space to do interesting things with the plot and the characters. Season One is the weakest of all the seasons, in my opinion, with the possible exception of Season Seven. As with most shows, it takes a while to get its feet under itself. The first really good episode, again in my opinion, is "Prophecy Girl", which is the last episode of Season One.
One thing Buffy emphaticically does not lend itself to is scattershot viewing of an episode here and an episode there. My best non-fannish friend said that he really hated BtVS. He'd seen a lot of episodes because his friends all ranted and raved about it, and there was just nothing special there. I talked him into watching Season One, starting from the beginning, and promised we could stop at any point he liked. He watched the first two or three episodes to please me. His attempts to say something nice were amusingly strained. About half-way through Season One, he got totally hooked. We've now finished all of Buffy, and have just started Angel. We get together every Friday night, drink gin and tonics, and watch Buffy (now Angel) DVDs. We average three episodes a night, and sometimes get as high as five.
All that said, I know a lot of people who don't like Buffy. There are the people for whom fantastical settings just don't work. If you've never been able to read a science fiction or fantasy book, Buffy won't do it for you. (Frankly, I can't remember what you liked to read. It has been a long time, hasn't it?) If you're very rigid about wanting things to be absolutely logical and consistent at all times (a lot of sf fans are like that) then Buffy won't live up to your expectations there, either. There are a bunch of other reasons that people have given for hating Buffy. The strangest one I've heard so far is not liking the dialogue. As far as I'm concerned, the dialogue is the reason to watch it in the first place. Whedon and his writers are brilliant. And if you're interested in true writing virtuousity, pay attention to the way they handle exposition. The writers can get more information packed painlessly into six lines of dialogue than most writers can manage in a full minute on screen.
Um, I did mention that I was obsessed, right?
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Date: 2005-10-12 04:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-10-12 05:03 am (UTC)In later seasons, the metaphors change as Buffy grows up. Her difficulty becoming an adult are somewhat less metaphorical, but the endless struggle against evil is still externalized, where it can be more easily seen and understood. Figuring out how to behave ethically is a struggle that becomes especially difficult for young adults -- at least, young adults who were me.
Jo Walton once used the phrase "the instantiation of metaphor." I like that a lot. It is the special province of fantasy and science fiction, it is something that our genres can do that are difficult or impossible to do in other genres. Being able to change "it is as if she was fighting demons" to having the character literally fight demons opens up a world of possibilities. I don't know much about magic realism, so I can't speak to it, but I believe that it also does similar things with metaphor.
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Date: 2005-10-12 01:13 pm (UTC)I have a K&M mid-term on Friday, if you could think good thoughts for me, it would be much appreciated. I cannot remember which muscle is a synergist to a muscle in a certain movement but an antagonist to that same muscle in another movement!
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Date: 2005-10-12 03:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-10-14 08:01 am (UTC)All of u
Date: 2008-07-28 12:52 pm (UTC)GET A LIFE LOSERS
EVERY DAY YOU GUYS WATCH STUPID STUFF
Re: All of u
Date: 2008-07-28 01:38 pm (UTC)Tittei!
Date: 2011-01-31 10:50 pm (UTC)I love it.
Date: 2011-10-07 04:15 pm (UTC)And don't get me started on the things I can't forgive Angel for. Like you, I totally forgive him for Angelus. Actually, I adore Angelus! But Angel... He left her in season 3, just after she graduated high school, basically having to start a new stage in her life. She needed his support and he wasn't there for her. THEN the "I Will Remember You" thing. I never forgave him for turning back the day. He should have talked to her about it. It was her life and her memories being tampered with! Then the Faith thing. What Faith did to Buffy when she came out of her coma was awful. And Angel didn't even hear Buffy's side of the story. All Faith had to say was that Buffy had a new boyfriend and that pretty much sealed it that Angel would protect Faith from Buffy. The Irony? Buffy wanted to go after Faith for stealing her body. Not to mention threatening her mother, sleeping with her boyfriend, and trying to hurt her friends. In season 3, same thing happens to Angel. Only he just gets his body taken. What does he do? He lets the guy who stole his body die! He wouldn't even let Buffy hit Faith, and even HITS HER, the woman he's supposed to "LOVE", to protect someone who hurt her, and when the same things happens to him, he lets the guy die, not lifting a finger to get him help for his heart attack. Not that there was much he could do but still. Angel is a jerk, undeserving of Buffy's love.
Also, to the trolls, get over it. No one made you come here and read this.
Ignore the stupid trolls. There's always going to be someone telling us we're weird or to get a life just because we're really into something they are not. That's just how some jerk offs work. But who do you think really needs a life: The people responding appropriately to a topic, or the people taking time out of their day to come here and make fun of us for a discussion that has nothing to do with them? Lol
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Date: 2012-01-15 09:35 am (UTC)Angel was undeserving of Buffy's love. As the first Slayer said: "You are full of love". I think Angel was just infatuated by a hot young girl and went all googly eyed wanting to get close to her. Face it, he was a womanising, drunken letch as a human, and he can't be all that different as a Souled Vampire.
Spike, for example, stays very much the same as his human self once he recieves a soul, and starts to understand that he shouldn't force his love on Buffy, but didn't walk away from her. He was there, stuck with her through the toughest fight of their life in Season 5 and 7.
Angel saw... I really have to say it's lust. I can't use the word love. He acted like such a jerk and forced Buffy to build so many walls to protect herself that it's a wonder Riley and Spike were ever let in. Granted, Spike more-so than Riley, in the end.
As for the "I Will Remember You" episode. Makes me physically sick. He wanted some happies, got his happies, then realised "oh no, I'll be this weak? Screw that!" and transformed back to his cursed vampire self.
He's the epitome of a Heart player.
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Date: 2014-08-26 09:05 am (UTC)Spike went to get a Soul just for Buffy And he loved her so much
I cried so much when he died :(
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Date: 2014-08-26 01:20 pm (UTC)Did you notice that Spike is the only man in Buffy's life who never abandons her? Angel, Riley, her father, Giles, for fuck's sake, abandon her. Never Spike. And Spike is the only person in her life that never tries to protect her from the consequences of being the Slayer. He never has a problem with the fact that she can whip his ass (ok, he kinda likes it) and he never tries to keep her from her destiny for her own good. For all that their sexual relationship has only a nodding acquaintance with the concept of consent, the rest of their relationship is actually about empowerment and support.
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Date: 2014-09-18 11:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-09-18 03:56 pm (UTC)I was much older when I hit Buffy, so I was able to recognize the ways in which Angel is being incredibly unfair. And the fact that Buffy doesn't catch him at it is beautiful writing; a seventeen year old girl wouldn't recognize the way she's being done down. One of my very favorite scenes is the bedroom scene right after Angel has lost his soul, where he carefully eviscerates her love in a comprehensive fashion. Wow. Felt like a gut wound.
Yes, I do still love the show. It's probably about time for a re-watch.
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Date: 2016-01-30 05:44 am (UTC)I've been binge rewatching and just finished season three. Now that I'm done sobbing, I really, really hate Angel. I kind of wish Buffy had just staked him as he was walking away. Yes, they could have had so much and it could have been so great, but Angel is just so horrible. He claims to be thinking about her, but it's really all about him. Sure, the relationship might not be perfect long-term, but that doesn't mean it has to end *right now*! Who is he to tell her she *will* want children, or that she will want a different life? That is something that only time will tell and if time ultimately told her that, she would have the authority to make that call! Not him. He's over 240 years old & not getting older, spending a few with her while she decides what she does or does not want out of life is too much? She gave him everything, absolutely everything. And he says thanks by unilaterally deciding to just walk away, on his timetable in whatever way makes it easiest for him, even though they are both still in love with each other. Willow could have made all those problems go away, but he couldn't be bothered to hang out for a couple years to try.
Spike is the better man by far. Spike was able to rein in his demon, Angel without his soul was a slave to his demon. Spike cared for Buffy with or without his soul, he knew what she was & saw the good in it & had the willpower to not just be a plain ol' vampire. Angel is and always was a weak, controlling, arrogant man. Spike was a weak man who has learned to overcome that weakness. Sure he isn't a saint, but at least he is honest and doesn't actively try to make Buffy's life as painful as possible! Even with Dru Spike showed he was stronger than Angel.
I also agree with the age thing. I was 13 when watching season 3 on tv & I was decidedly in Angel's camp back then. He was just so nice! And Spike was mean. I was angry at Spike for usurping Angel's place. It's really interesting to see how growing up & going through my own Angels and Spikes has changed my perception of these relationships. Spike had major flaws, but he was *there* for her when she needed it, not just when it was convenient for him.
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Date: 2016-01-30 05:55 am (UTC)Um, yes, I'm in love with Spike. Why do you ask?
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Date: 2016-01-30 07:45 pm (UTC)I've been binge rewatching and just finished season three. Now that I'm done sobbing, I really, really hate Angel. I kind of wish Buffy had just staked him as he was walking away. Yes, they could have had so much and it could have been so great, but Angel is just so horrible. He claims to be thinking about her, but it's really all about him. Sure, the relationship might not be perfect long-term, but that doesn't mean it has to end *right now*! Who is he to tell her she *will* want children, or that she will want a different life? That is something that only time will tell and if time ultimately told her that, she would have the authority to make that call! Not him. He's over 240 years old & not getting older, spending a few with her while she decides what she does or does not want out of life is too much? She gave him everything, absolutely everything. And he says thanks by unilaterally deciding to just walk away, on his timetable in whatever way makes it easiest for him, even though they are both still in love with each other. Willow could have made all those problems go away, but he couldn't be bothered to hang out for a couple years to try.
Spike is the better man by far. Spike was able to rein in his demon, Angel without his soul was a slave to his demon. Spike cared for Buffy with or without his soul, he knew what she was & saw the good in it & had the willpower to not just be a plain ol' vampire. Angel is and always was a weak, controlling, arrogant man. Spike was a weak man who has learned to overcome that weakness. Sure he isn't a saint, but at least he is honest and doesn't actively try to make Buffy's life as painful as possible! Even with Dru Spike showed he was stronger than Angel.
I also agree with the age thing. I was 13 when watching season 3 on tv & I was decidedly in Angel's camp back then. He was just so nice! And Spike was mean. I was angry at Spike for usurping Angel's place. It's really interesting to see how growing up & going through my own Angels and Spikes has changed my perception of these relationships. Spike had major flaws, but he was *there* for her when she needed it, not just when it was convenient for him.
no subject
Date: 2016-01-30 07:59 pm (UTC)I've been binge rewatching and just finished season three. Now that I'm done sobbing, I really, really hate Angel. I kind of wish Buffy had just staked him as he was walking away. Yes, they could have had so much and it could have been so great, but Angel is just so horrible. He claims to be thinking about her, but it's really all about him. Sure, the relationship might not be perfect long-term, but that doesn't mean it has to end *right now*! Who is he to tell her she *will* want children, or that she will want a different life? That is something that only time will tell and if time ultimately told her that, she would have the authority to make that call! Not him. He's over 240 years old & not getting older, spending a few with her while she decides what she does or does not want out of life is too much? She gave him everything, absolutely everything. And he says thanks by unilaterally deciding to just walk away, on his timetable in whatever way makes it easiest for him, even though they are both still in love with each other. Willow could have made all those problems go away, but he couldn't be bothered to hang out for a couple years to try.
Spike is the better man by far. Spike was able to rein in his demon, Angel without his soul was a slave to his demon. Spike cared for Buffy with or without his soul, he knew what she was & saw the good in it & had the willpower to not just be a plain ol' vampire. Angel is and always was a weak, controlling, arrogant man. Spike was a weak man who has learned to overcome that weakness. Sure he isn't a saint, but at least he is honest and doesn't actively try to make Buffy's life as painful as possible! Even with Dru Spike showed he was stronger than Angel.
I also agree with the age thing. I was 13 when watching season 3 on tv & I was decidedly in Angel's camp back then. He was just so nice! And Spike was mean. I was angry at Spike for usurping Angel's place. It's really interesting to see how growing up & going through my own Angels and Spikes has changed my perception of these relationships. Spike had major flaws, but he was *there* for her when she needed it, not just when it was convenient for him.
no subject
Date: 2016-01-30 09:01 pm (UTC)I've always thought he wasn't asking for a soul but asking to be typical-vampire state. He just phrased it poorly.
That's a good observation, it's true that all the other men in her life really do have performance issues. They don't let her be herself or make her own decisions, they have to protect her and show how strong they are, and then have an identity crisis when she's capable.