I hate one-sided conversations

[lydy]

I don't particularly like being yelled at, either. But, you know, into every life a little yelling must fall. What I have very little tolerance for is being hectored and being unable to respond. I put up with as a child because, you know, child. And at work, of course, one allows one's boss to yell at one, and if one is smart one normally just listens. But in personal relationships? Even strange, crazy, toxic ones? My toloerance for it is less and less as time goes by.

So, you know, I got this as a LJ message from Louie:

markiv1111 (from 75.72.194.152)

September 26 2013, 01:00:27 Local Edited: September 26 2013, 01:19:15 Local link Collapse Delete Freeze Screen Track Edit
Lydy responded to a post I had made ;my very first ever post in LJ back in August or early Sept. 2012. when it was all the rage to harass me for posting there, even though Nate had given me his express permission. Her post began:

" You know, Louie, every time I try to like you, even a little bit, you post something like this, and I get mad all over again."

It was my first ever LJ post, I think, , and both that fact plus the bizarre concept of 'trying to like' somebody made her stand out as a person who doesn't consider her choice of words before she publishes them here. Trying to get along, I can see, but liking comes from affinity, and that should be effortless and natural.

I can guaran-damn-tee you that she is not making herself any easier for me to like, and I did consider getting to know her better just because Nate seems to care to about her. Her sententious ramblings and detailed analysis of my behavior at the MinnStf meeting on last Sat. was so patronizing, so uncalled for, and so inaccurate that I found it laughable at first. But the implications that she is willing to get this kind of picky icky detail at a time when things are so utterly difficult already blows my mind.

I have had more than enough from her. She will be banned soon. Either that or I will decide that the signal to noise ratio is all wrong and just stop reading and posting completely.

have done nothing wrong; I was a model of good behavior, and I get this crap from her? Just because she can, and I find that hateful. My beef about Nate's behavior at the meeting was a legitimate one, between Nate and I, and she should keep her snout out of it, as she was part of the problem, not a neutral observer.

****

I would respond to her in the same fashion, except that she's blocked me. Which, you know, is fine. It's just that I don't particularly like being in a position where I can't respond if I want to.

While I have many different thoughts about this latest oddness, here are my top two:

1) This might be mildly concerning if I thought that she had sent it to someone whose good opinion I value. However, as far as I know, we don't have any mutual friends left. So, kinda not worried.

2) If she thinks that what I posted about the Mnstf meeting was a detailed analysis, she understands neither the word detailed nor the word analysis.

Comments

[lcohen]

i (perhaps selfishly) hope that you won't stop posting. other than that, i send hugs, and tell you that i am listening.

[lydy.livejournal.com]

I have no plans to stop posting. Really, I enjoy LJ quite a bit. I am considering whether or not importing this particular drama into my LJ friends lives is entirely kind or appropriate. It has been suggested to me that I learn to use cut tags, and I will indeed do so if this continues to be, like, a thing.

If this drama is not to your taste, please, please feel free to totally give it a miss.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

It's life, Lydy. Not drama. Life is where real people do and say real things and have a relationships that are not based on the verbal equivalent of mutual masturbation.

[lydy.livejournal.com]

You think that people cannot live their lives dramatically? You think that the fairly common locution I've been using for high-affect confrontations indicates that I don't think what is going on is real? You think that people cannot have real relationships in print?

You are wrong on all counts.

[kaffy_r]

Thinking of you, and many others; and I am very sorry to see all this, even at my extreme remove.

[lydy.livejournal.com]

I am sorry too. I am sorry that so many people have gotten hurt, in a large variety of ways. I'm not all that happy that I'm one of them, of course, but other people have been hurt much worse.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

You, sorry? I'd like to see that, I really would. That would almost be worth all the trouble you've caused with your pointless venomous nannerings.

[lydy.livejournal.com]

And how, exactly, would I show that to you since you refuse to believe anything I say? In point of fact, my emotions about this situation and you in particular are complex and layered. But sharing that with you doesn't seem like a winning strategy.

[mle292.livejournal.com]

Deleted comment because I'm worried that my ignorance may cause unnecessary drama. I will send the comment privately if you like.

I hope this mellows for everyone. This sounds very stressful.

[skylarker.livejournal.com]

Agreed to the last statement. It seems I'm lucky to have had another engagement and have missed the Mnstf meeting.

[pameladean]

It's very annoying indeed, but you don't really have a personal relationship with Louie, because she has no idea who you are. She has made up a bunch of stuff and is trying to have a fight with that.

P.

[pnh.livejournal.com]

Yes exactly.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

Sure., Pamela, just keep telling your self that. I am pathologically honest; it's a pitiful state to live with, but there you go. You could have told me about his first marriage and the violence, being one of a few people to know the truth. It's you who have lied by omission.

One of your specialities. I think. I'd have never moved in with, much less married him if I knew about that. Thanks bunches, girlie girl..

[pameladean]

I have no idea what you're talking about. I say this for the record, since I don't expect you to believe me any more than you believed anything I said when we were corresponding privately.

P.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

Nate has always put forward the lie that, while his first marriage decades ago included violent behavior, he made a point at declaring that his former wife was the first to strike out at him. I've heard the truth, and it was delivered with a smirk and the sense that he was pleased to recall how it felt to hit her because she wouldn't talk to him after being verbally assaulted mercilessly by Nate and the other male members of the band.

Then he told me that he and the guys stood around, them saying things like, "What took you so long? Right on!! She got what she deserved."

Nate told me that you were one of two people who were told the truth years ago. If that's not true, well, there's another lie from Nate.

[dd-b.livejournal.com]

Whenever I've been in a position to observe something directly, and then seen (or heard) you and Nate talk about it, his version is always quite reality-based. Yours is sometimes, especially in the last year or so, wildly variant from the reality other people present observed.

So, when dealing with conflicts between your reports and Nate's, I'm generally going to favor his.

One of the good things about your having come to various Minn-StF events in the last few months is that now most of us have had a chance to see this first-hand.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

You live in such a haze of egotistic and ingrown upside down self-deception that you wouldn't know the truth if it came up behind you and tattooed itself on your foolish false face. You might get it after reading it a hundred times, but I doubt it.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

You are just bitter because I rejected your advances decades ago. Sad little fanboy.

[dd-b.livejournal.com]

Now that one is downright hilarious! Never tempted, sorry.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

Oh, right, that wasn't you because it had a different face. Men who put their hands on me, especially from behind, as an introduction used to get their chimes rung pronto.

So,, since you didn't see my face, I suppose your laughter is totally justifiable. You didn't even know who you were accosting, you just did it because you could.

Yuck.

[dd-b.livejournal.com]

You've been living in your rich interior fantasy world a lot longer than I had realized!

[mle292.livejournal.com]

. I'd have never moved in with, much less married him if I knew about that.

From this, and from your other description of abusive behaviour, I infer that you don't want to be married to him, now or ever again, and you don't want to live with him, now or ever again.

Though it's always difficult to end any relationship, I suspect that you must be a bit relieved to have permanently ended such an unhappy relationship for you.

I think that your relationship with Nate is also stressful and unhappy for the community that you, Nate and I are a part of. I think it's best for everyone that it's over.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

My relationship with Nate was wonderful for the first eight years or so. The last five years have been a slow decline of his mental and emotional stability, along with cancer, unemployment (for Nate), then disability from mental illness. I've been treated less and less like a loved one and more and more as if I were the source of his problems. then he was also diagnosed with dementia, which has thrown everything about our home life into free fall when he forgets where he is or when he looks at me like he doesn't know who I am or why I'm there in front. of him.

The worst was Aug.11, when he thought I was attacking him and thus the beating that he thinks I gave him, not the beating he gave me..

He is a wonderful man with so many good qualities, and probably will do better away from all the responsibilities and complexities of being a homeowner and husband. I love him so much, but he's not safe to be with any more. I wish I could reach out to him, put my arms around him, tell him I love him....but I don't dare. I'm not strong enough right now to see him at all without falling to pieces.

I'm not sure who you are, by the way, but I'm glad to find someone in Nate's friends list who is willing to be civil and ask intelligent questions.

Yes, there is relief, but there is also grieving a man I loved and gave myself to completely. He there is some of the time, and then he's not. It's too much for me. I've been jerked around by the locals who think they know what happened within these walls; I could do without that, but I won't bend my conscience to the point of hating them. I think it's all just sad, at the very best.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

Why do you draw these conclusions? You don'; know me, I don't know you.

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

Louie, either you are not pathologically honest or your own memory is faulty. Those are the only two possible explanations for why you included me--in an LJ post--as one of the people involved in the August 2012 incident, an incident that I knew nothing about until after you asked me to meet with you, to hear your side.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

You are irrelevant, Carol.

James just told me you used to be a Scientologist, and I had to thank him, but first I laughed, and laughed, and laughed.

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

This is probably the weirdest untrue thing anyone has ever said about me. Not to mention the fact that James doesn't know me; we have said "hello," perhaps, at Minn-Stf meetings, nothing more.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

No, every word has been, with the exception of typos, the unvarnished truth. there was only one liar in this marriage, and I ain't the one.

[pameladean]

I'm not accusing you of lying. I'm taking issue with your opinions of Lydy's motivations, personality, writing ability, and so on. I am sure you believe them, but that doesn't mean they are remotely accurate, because they aren't.

This is really all that I have to say on the subject.

P.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

Pamela, Nate was violent with me. I'm not making that up. I have never tried to hurt him during our altercations. I have gone out of my way to try not to hurt him.

He loses control; this is a real issue, and I worry about any woman who makes the mistake of being alone with him.

[pameladean]

You've made all that very clear many times.

I don't see that insulting Lydy is a great way to warn her.

And I wasn't talking about anything you had ever said about Nate. I was taking issue with your expressed opinions of a member of my family. When I said you made up a bunch of stuff, I meant about Lydy, and I stick to that. You are wrong about her about as completely as it is possible to be.

Having said that, I am done.

P.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

I didn't make up anything, Pamela. Don't be a credulous child, for pity's sake.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

lydy, you are twisted enough that I suspect that even you don't know you well enough to be your own friend.

You could change that, maybe, but I may be giving credit where its not due.

Don't worry, I accept that you are incapable of being straight forward.

Truth is volatile stuff and it appears that you afraid of the fire.

And as far as analysis goes, I have degree in math and computer programming.

And I also have spent hours observing animal behavior and logging that and analyzing that.

I studied Psychological Anthropology at Hamline.

Don't try verbal sleight of hand, you are not good at it at all.

Just because you have two arms and two legs doesn't mean you are a functioning human being.

Quit while you are only a little behind; you, like Nate, like to throw words around like you know everything there is to know about whatever the topic at hand may be.

Or continue, as it may please you. I can tell you like getting words out of your head and it may relieve the pressure in your tiny little skull and prevent a really unpleasant toxic mass release of verbiage from happening. I've seen that; didn't read it all.

That's one of the weird things about LJ. People put things up and there's no way of knowing whether they speak truth, or convey useful information unless you really know the source. I know you well enough to know that you can't shut up to save your life.

So, by all means, knock yourself out.

[dd-b.livejournal.com]

This is...well, this is not up to the idiocy level of deciding to start a public insult competition with Toni Brust at Minicon (Toni does that professionally; you're a not particularly talented amateur). But it's heading that direction.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

Thank you. One does what one can.

Want to hear what I have to say about you? Do ya, do ya?

[lydy.livejournal.com]

Ok, I'll just stick to the two things that leave me most curious. The first is, what verbal sleight of hand have I attempted? I had thought I was writing in a fairly straight forward and factual fashion.

My second thought is in response to this: "That's one of the weird things about LJ. People put things up and there's no way of knowing whether they speak truth, or convey useful information unless you really know the source." How does that distinguish LJ from any other form of communication?

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

In person, you freakin' harridan, you can look someone in the eye and judge the veracity of their utterances. You for instance reek of pretense and have the posture of utter fiction; the same with your semi-husband. Talking person to person; there's no substitute for the face time.

I am, and always have been a better than average judge of character. You creeped me out from the first time I ever met you.

This form of wordifying allows people like you to sit back and spew venom and lies, puffery and pure unadulterated malodorous flup without having to look me in the eye. I dare you to meet with me again, Lydy. I see you; I really see you, and you can't handle that, can you?

Party on, don't let me spoil your fun.

[dd-b.livejournal.com]

This delusion about being able to tell if somebody is lying by looking them "in the eye" is admittedly somewhat common -- but the fact that it was not true was a truism of mystery books at least 70 years ago. It's not like it's news!

[lydy.livejournal.com]

You looked me in the eye, I told you the truth, and you called me a liar. Your lie detecting ability is sub-par.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

LIke your ha'-spouse, you will argue with the wind, wouldn't you, lydy.

If this is a contest to see who runs out of words first, I will win.

If it's about truth, you can't even play, because you lack the ability to tell the real from the imaginary.

I generally have never gone for purposely hurting people, but you seem to want to hear this things from me, and who am I to deprive you.

[lydy.livejournal.com]

Sorry to disappoint you, but you aren't hurting me. You are amusing me. The various unlikely lies that you have told about several of my friends, not to mention the fantasies that you appear to have about me, are very surreal and sometime entertaining. I have a hard time imagining anyone less likely to be a Scientologist than Carol, but there you go.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

Teehee. (snort*) giggle giggle; if you had a brain or a conscience you'd give up your attack dog defense of a man who is so sick and so charming that he is literally dangerous.

You try to love him and see what you get, you unfortunate drab.

[mle292.livejournal.com]

Wait. I'm confused. Are Louie and Nate a couple or an ex-couple?

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

We are still married but living apart. It's a good thing.

We have been married for 11 years; though I've known him for 43 years.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

I like having conversations with people who don't agree with me, because I usually learn something. Hearing from people who have different views or beliefs can be illuminating.

You, on the other hand, are so afraid you'll learn something, so you stay within your little cult-clique so you are not jarred by hearing something you can't won't agree with.

I'd feel sorry for myself if I were as soul-blind as you, lydy.

[lydy.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes, I'm so afraid of hearing something I won't agree with that I've banned you from my LJ -- no, wait, that would be you who banned me. And you who sends me LJ messages to which I cannot respond because of your privacy settings. Which, if you'll think for a moment, is kind of the reason for this thread in the first place.

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

LJ is a playground for me; don't push in line in front of me to get to the slide.

And, as far as hurting goes, I would imagine that it sucks to be you. You often say the opposite of what you mean, and you aren't aware of it, apparently.

Bored now. Having tried to plumb the depth of your personality, I find I have barely wetted the bottoms of my shoes.

*yawn*

[apostle-of-eris.livejournal.com]

This entire post-thread illustrates again the wisdom of not responding except when directly physically necessary.